Obama's Problem

Being the almost presumptive nominee of the party must be a lonely place for Barack Obama. He has won the majority of pledged delegates (pre-Saturday showdown), and got not a lot of media mileage out of it. He has been the frontrunner ever since it became clear that the Clinton campaign didn't have a competent caucus strategy in late-February, and he still isn't officially the nominee. And now he is looking toward a weekend when the DNC will probably delay his ascendency by raising the number of delegates required for nomination. He probably will be nominated in the end, but will do so after having probably received fewer votes than his opponent, which- if everyone is being honest- is not a position of strength.

Being Hillary Clinton must be even harder. For over a year, she was touted as the inevitable nominee only to realize too late that her campaign had failed her. The "we'll-maybe-win-in-Iowa-and-definately- win-New-Hampshire-and-then-everything-wi ll-be-roses" strategy looks profoundly dumb in retrospect. She is left with cards that are not that great, even after having outperformed Obama down the stretch.

I am a dyed in the wool Clinton supporter, but the above is not snarky. I imagine that running for President is not an easy thing to do. I legitimately feel sorry for both Obama and Clinton: they have both inspired unprecendented levels of support and it is June and no one has won yet.

Obama will, to a 95% degree of liklihood, be the nominee in the end. I don't like it, and I am still deciding whether to vote for Obama or write in Clinton in November. But I respect Obama (if not all of his supporters). My potential protest vote has more to do with the process that got him here than him personally.

I do have some concerns about Obama and his campaign at this juncture. Before I experience the snarky comments that are inevitable from Obama's supporters, let me throw you a little bone. The below are big problems for Obama. Clinton's problem is larger: she probably lost.

Here are my thoughts:

The FL / MI Showdown

I have no idea what the Rules and Bylaws committee will ultimately decide. My own personal view is that doing what the Republicans did (1/2 vote) would probably be appropriate. I also believe that awarding Obama delegates from MI or splitting the delegates 50/50 is a silly enterprise- making up delegate allocations based not based on votes is undemocratic and flies in the face of the one person, one vote theory. Alas, that's another diary.

It sounds like it is equally unlikely that either candidate will truly get their way. Not seating the delegations at all (Obama) seems as unlikely as seating them fully based on their January primaries (Clinton). I have been reading for the past several days that some sort of Solomonic solution is in the works. I hope that it is something that we can all accept, even if not cheer about.

What does, for example, giving the FL/MI delegates each one-half of a vote do to the numbers?

Well, it would raise the number of delegates needed for nomination from 2025 to 2130.5. (link: http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/ fl-mi-by-numbers_21.html    see scenario #4). At this moment, that would leave Obama 96 delegates away from the nomination, and Clinton 246. In other words, Clinton gets no real-world benefit, but does gain a few delegates on Obama.

Let's play with the math a little bit. Let's give Obama 25 delegates from PR (seems generous) and 16 from MT and SD (realistic). That puts him, under this scenario, 55 delegates away. Let's give Clinton 30 delegates from PR (low-balling) and 14 from Montana and SD. That puts her 202 delegates away. Would Obama win? Almost certainly.

(The above scenario does not give Obama Michigan's uncommitted delegates. I think that this idea is a miscarraige of justice and in no way a "fair" solution. But again, another diary. If the decision does go that way, then that would put Obama about 35, rather than 55, delegates away.)

But here's my question: I would have thought that the Obama people would have absolutely moved heaven and earth to get to 2025 before Saturday, so that he could be declared the presumptive nominee. It still may happen, but 45 superdelegates in two days exceeds anything that we have seen in the campaign. Being the presumptive nominee and then having it taken away from you by bar-raising by the Rules and Bylaws Committee would have been a really powerful argument to the American people and the non-establishment Democratic party: "see the hoops they're putting me through," etc. etc. It hasn't happened. Why not?

The Electoral Map

Gallup released an interesting set of numbers profiling a small but notable Clinton edge against McCain. (link: http://www.gallup.com/poll/107539/Hillar y-Clintons-SwingState-Advantage.aspx) This data indicates that Clinton performs better in the states that she won in the general than Obama does in his- where he and Clinton run roughly equally. Further, since Clinton won states that comprise roughly 60% of the national electorate, that parlays into a real world advantage, argues Gallup.

Poblano, who is an amateur analyst, apparently professional statistician, and Obama supporter who has gained a lot of notoriety in the blogosphere this primary season for his/her analysis, which was spot-on on Super Tuesday. After exhibiting data on his/her new website for months showing Obama with a general election advantage, in recent weeks, Clinton has demonstrated real strength and now exceeds Obama's win percentage by a healthy margin. (61.8% to 51.8%). If you haven't checked out Poblano's site, do. It's chock full of wonderful charts and graphs and delicious statistical analysis that I don't pretend to understand. (link: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ )

Just today, Survey USA released a poll showing Obama losing Michigan. It looks to me like the general consensus of polling and commentary that I have seen shows that Clinton has the potential of winning a lot of states that Obama doesn't. Arkansas, West Virginia, and Florida come to mind. Clinton even currently leads McCain in Kentucky and North Carolina. In other words, a coalition that almost certainly would win the White House.

Obama seems to win Colorado, head to another close election in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and maybe bring Virginia to the table. (I have read that those in the know think that an Obama win in Virginia is unlikely, though I am more interested in evidence through credible polling which indicates that he certainly has a good shot.) In other words, a tossup.

My question, and the one that I imagine makes the Obama people uneasy: seeing whereas no one has won yet, and the primaries have been basically a tie- does this not matter?

I think it probably won't in the end- but it certainly should, in my opinion. Since February, the media juggernaut has been preaching that the only "fair" outcome is an Obama nomination, which seems exceedingly likely.

The Popular Vote

So far, Clinton's claims of leading in the popular vote have been catcalled by Obama's supporters because the claims inevitably include Florida and Michigan. Those were not DNC-santioned contests, we are told, so we shouldn't count the votes of the millions of people who voted there, either. As of Saturday, the likely will be DNC-sanctioned contests, which almost guarantees Clinton a popular vote lead. That and a quarter will get Clinton a newspaper. But it's something to brag about and is a huge consolation prize, to be sure.

Running for President is hard work. These two have inspired beyond anyone's expectations. The end is near, apparently. I look forward to the DNC's decision and to Puerto Rico this weekend. We will learn a lot in the next 96 hours: how far away is Obama from the nomination? Will Clinton win by enough in Puerto Rico to earn bragging rights by winning the popular vote, even including caucus estimates? In the end, I hope that the right thing will happen.



Display:


Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 1)

A certain presidential candidate is making some rather extravagant claims about leading in every single poll taken here on planet earth, so let's just look at the numbers.

This chart shows, by month, the average net margin of victory or defeat for Obama and Clinton versus McCain. It relies on every single poll aggregated by pollster.com except for those polls in which only one candidate appeared. In other words, this is a true apples-to-apples test.

As you can see, even though Hillary Clinton has made significant strides relative to Obama, he still outperforms her on average. Sure, you can cherry pick whatever results Karl Rove may want by taking a selective look at state-by-state polling, but there's no ambiguity: Hillary Clinton does not do any better than Barack Obama versus John McCain.

It's also worth noting that one of the reasons for the tightening is that since March, the GOP attack machine has focused almost exclusively on Barack Obama. Simultaneously, he's faced withering attacks from Hillary Clinton and had to deal with two Jeremiah Wright flareups, not to mention ABC's assault on his patriotism. And yet he's still more than held his own.


by Deadalus on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:41:34 PM EST

Yawn. (1.00 / 2)

Wake me up when someone makes a point that hasn't been debunked.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:41:51 PM EST

Re: Yawn. (1.50 / 2)

The best one yet!


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:17:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obamaspam (none / 0)

SPAM FOR DINNER?


by SoCalVet on Wed May 28, 2008 at 10:33:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uprated for troll rating abuse (none / 0)

Read the rules.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 28, 2008 at 11:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yawn. (none / 0)

Yawn indeed:

Obama is so lonely at the top, sigh.

This campaign will go on forevah, sigh.

Maybe not. Maybe in 5 days it will be over. Obama WILL take SD and MT on Tuesday, and Obama will announce a flood of supers on Wednesday.

Here's the math to watch, as it will blow Clinton out of the water. Take all of the MI/FL delegates, super and pledged, that support Obama, multiple them by two, add them to Obama's total, and voila, he will be way, way over 2209.

That will blow Clinton's argument right out of the water.

Now Obama will not have all of these delegates on 6/4, since he will still have 20 add-ons to be selected at that point. But add them in, and he will be far over 2209, sending Clinton packing back to D.C.


by PatrickBradish on Thu May 29, 2008 at 08:03:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How many troll diaries? (1.00 / 3)

How many posted today.

First person gets Mojo!


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:46:24 PM EST

Re: How many troll diaries? (none / 0)

troll diary???? because it's not pro-Obama? why?


by swissffun on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:58:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many troll diaries? (none / 0)

Diarist's last title:
"Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto the Ticket"

"Force" = wreck havoc on the Democratic Party

= Goal of a Troll.

I'm not calling the diarist a troll, but the diarist has troll goals.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:07:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (1.00 / 5)

With all due respect, you are retarded. How can you say that you respect Obama and not vote for him when the system that he won with is the same exact system the Clintons ran under in 1992 and 1996. Did HRC forget about caucuses? Did HRC forget that it was about delegates and not popular votes? No. She didn't have as many loyal supporters (like you) as Obama did. It's that simple.

I hope you will reconsider your "protest" vote. It does no one any good to have McCain appoint more conservative judges for you to make a point that has been made by 100 bloggers like you.

Get over it and point your hatred towards McCain. It will be better served.

Just my two cents.


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:46:29 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 3)

Calling the diarist retarded is unethical on several levels.  It's also bad form as it makes it less likely you will persuade them.  I am rarely open to the opinions of anyone who calls me 'retarded'.  As a fellow Obama supporter, I suggest you try a better tack and tone.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (1.00 / 3)

Just because I support Obama, doesn't mean you have to like me. This blog is full of crappy Clinton supporters, so I am doing my part. I am not Obama - I don't work for anyone - I am me.

I don't really care what you think about me. But I do care when someone write a retarded blog saying they "respect" Obama but will vote for McCain or a protest vote for Clinton. That is, as a matter of speech, is retarded.

Get over it.


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 1)

I am not expressing like or dislike for you, nor am I interested in doing so.  I pointed out a disagreement with something in your comment that I think both unfair and ultimately unhelpful to the project of supporting Obama's candidacy, something I thought you were invested in doing.  There was no judgment of you or affection for you or presumption that you would consider what I intended as a constructive comment.  I'm sorry if I offended you.  There's nothing to get over.  Thanks for reading.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:24:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 1)

My apologies. Thank you for your well written response to my crappy comments. I appreciate your advice. Honestly, I do.


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:18:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)

Cheers.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)


Don't fret on this GE polling.  Things swing back and forth during the months before November.  Take a look at the polling this time of year in '04 between Kerry/Bush and you'll see what I mean.

The fact is, both of our candidates are strong performers and once Hillary starts campaigning for Barack, we'll see those numbers tighten up.


by neonplaque on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:47:12 PM EST

You lost credibility (2.00 / 1)

when you decided your General Election vote would be cast because you think the primary system is stupid.

Don't like it? Get involved and try to change it, giving the Republicans another term does not help change the system.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:51:50 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 2)

This was better written and more thoughtful than a lot of the other diaries I've seen lately.

Yes, Obama faces some difficulties in the general.  Exactly how serious, if at all, they actually are, however, will not be something we can test until we have resolved our nomination.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:53:28 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)

Just a few points regarding your potential "protest" vote. There are far more effective ways to protest the nomination process. No one will be moved by your protest vote; in fact, no one will really know how you voted individually. And, even though a few write-ins may get a little attention, no one will really appreciate what motivated the decision to write in Clinton (the be sure, the default explanation would be that you didn't like Obama rather than the process). So, I would advise you to vote for your favorite person who has a genuine shot at becoming the president, while undertaking other (more productive) means to express disappointment about the process by which Obama won the nomination.  


by DPW on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:57:34 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 1)

Sound diary and well written, though I disagree on a few points.  First, I do not think that HRC's campaign failed her, I thin she failed to run a competent campaign.  This shocks me, as it flies in the face of everything else I have seen from her.  She has been a solid legislator who ran good campaigns in NY (one while I was living there and I voted for her enthusiastically).  It's almost as if she digressed to the health care debacle.  But my point is that she has to take responsibility for the vast strategic failures and inefficient operation.  Conversely, I give Obama great credit for his campaign.  Too bad they've been mostly on cruise control for the last month.  He's phoning it in, and I think that contributes to some of the concerns about his general election position.  

As an Obama supporter, I want to see more from him, more innovative policy proposals and more energetic pursuit of the presidency.  But I think he's demonstrated that he's capable of both of those and therefore feel more confident than you do that the electoral challenges he faces will be addressed.  I think the contrast with McCain will serve him well.  I hope HRC will be a central part of the effort and a central participant in governance once he's in office.  In the mean time, I expect him to earn your vote and believe he will.

Thanks for a fairly thought out and well presented critical analysis of where things stand.  I assure you that I'd think that even if you hadn't emphasized that you think he is winning.  And I have no reservation to recommending this diary that presents a perspective in some ways opposed to my own.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:59:43 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 1)

Oops.  I meant 'regressed' of course to her health care debacle.  I'm going to consider this campaign an anomalous fumble, by the way.  She gets a mulligan if she shows the same focus and competence she has in other arenas.  In some sens, her campaign since late March is doing so, though some of her tactics give me pause.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)

I don't understand why you are considering casting a vote against Obama to fault him for a process that was determined by a committee stacked with Clinton supporters. If anyone was in a position to change the course of the process at the outset, it was Clinton. It is very difficult to make a correction now that votes have been cast in states where the candidates weren't allowed to campaign, where one candidate was virtually unknown a year ago and the other is a major celebrity.

The reason why people on both sides aren't putting too much stock in the popular vote is it does not give an accurate count for IA, NV, ME, WA. As Howard Wolfson said back in February, "We don't make distinctions between delegates chosen by million of voters in a primary and those chosen between tens of thousands in caucuses and we don't make distinctions when it comes to elected officials. We are interested in acquiring delegates, period."

No one expected Sen. Obama to do as well as he has -- that is why we are in this situation. If you have real concerns about Obama's policy positions, there are lots of people here who will honestly answer honest questions.


by grasshopper on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:01:25 PM EST

Hah!! (none / 0)

That and a quarter will get Clinton a newspaper.

It takes 2 quarters to buy a newspaper these days...unless you happen to need one on a Sunday!!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:04:45 PM EST

Indeed my home state paper (none / 0)

will cost 7 on Sunday.

But to the diarists point,  The new poll from MI has some suspect info in the cross tabs.

Do you believe that Obama only gets 60% of the African American vote against McCain, now I could understand that number if he was running against someone like Ted Kennedy, but not against John McCain who draws 26% of the AA vote.

Also in Wayne County (where Detroit is) It is a dead heat.  Now Detroit is a very democratic city and I don't buy that result.

SUSA has had a lot of weird polls (including the VA one (with Obama up), the NC one (with Clinton up) and this one.

They haven't gotten the weighting or screen right yet (the screen shown by the high number of undecideds).


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 10:04:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Michigan poll is garbage (2.00 / 1)

It has McCain winning by 4 with Obama only winning African Americans 67-24. Yeah, that'll happen.

It also has the two tied in Wayne County (Detroit). Again, not a chance in Hell.

Finally, it had black at 10% of the vote, when blacks were 13% in 2004. The white population has actually dropped in Michigan the last four years and the black population has remained constant. Blacks will be at least 15% of the vote in Michigan.

Polls in the 2006 governor's race made the same error. They kept showing DeVos within striking distance or even leading Granholm. Then she crushed him by 16 points.

Michigan will go to Obama easily.


by elrod on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:07:59 PM EST

strange (none / 0)

What happened to SUSA on that one?

That's ridiculous.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:11:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

SUSA has been kinda of funny (none / 0)

lately, I mean the VA results showing Obama up, the NC result showing Hillary up and this poll.  Very peculiar.

I commented on it upstream.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 10:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Michigan poll is garbage (2.00 / 1)

Obama alienated some of the AA community in Detroit with his disrespect to the mayor.  Although based on exit polls from other states, it might be tempting to believe that AA's are a monolithic voting group that would never vote against Barack Obama, this overlooks some of the key local problems Detroit poses for Obama.

"Michigan will go to Obama easily."

Michigan is not an "easy[]" bet for any Democrat this election.  Michigan is a disaster waiting to happen, given that we've had no opportunity to organize the party, register voters, or coordinate the interest of the state party with the national party.  I'm sorry but it doesn't help that the presumptive nominee sabotaged the election there and then repeatedly blocked revotes and opposed seating their delegation.  What an insult to the state.  If the RBC decision on Saturday is disfavorable to Michigan, the situation will only fester, as the state party becomes more hardened against Obama and the DNC.  

Can Obama win Michigan?  Yes.  But don't kid yourself into thinking this is an easy state.  That's the kind of overconfidence that lets sure victories slip away.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 11:55:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 1)

"But here's my question: I would have thought that the Obama people would have absolutely moved heaven and earth to get to 2025 before Saturday, so that he could be declared the presumptive nominee."

See you don't understand Obama or his campaign. It is a gracious way to let this play out until 6/3.
You will see enough SD's to declare leaving only 6/3 to put him over the top.
Having two female Party chairs declare today was no accident.
One of these is Pat Waak. Party Chair of the Host State for our Convention. The other from OR wrote this:

http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary/ore gonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1211928 90383090.xml&coll=7


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:10:22 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)

 Hillary would give her left nut to have Obama's problems.


by xdem on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:13:35 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (2.00 / 1)

I would like to say I was tired when I said that, and if anyone was offended, then I am sorry.


by xdem on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:15:15 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)

6/4 through 6/7 SD Obama SL's?

ashes...ashes..they all fall down.


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:15:34 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)

A tie? Let's see, as of today, Obama leads by 200: 1,980 to 1,780. Sorry my friend, but Obama won. It's time to move on. We have a nominee. Let's get behind him.


"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:59:05 PM EST

Re: Obama's Problem (none / 0)


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:16:50 PM EST


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